(All percentages are chance-of-success - so +25% is 25%-more-likely-to-succeed)
USING THE BASIC/EXPERT SCALE FOR ABILITY MODIFIERS (where 18 is +3)
DEX 3-4 ROLL-UNDER-REFLEX is +20% DEX 5-6 ROLL-UNDER-REFLEX is +15% DEX 7 ROLL-UNDER-REFLEX is +10% DEX 8-9 ROLL-UNDER-REFLEX is +5% DEX 10 no difference. DEX 11 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +5% DEX 12-13 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +10% DEX 14 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +15% DEX 15-16 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +20% DEX 17-18 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +25%
USING THE d20 SYSTEM SCALE FOR ABILITY MODIFIERS (where 18 is +4)
DEX 3-4 ROLL-UNDER-REFLEX is +15% DEX 5-6 ROLL-UNDER-REFLEX is +10% DEX 7-8 ROLL-UNDER-REFLEX is +5% DEX 9-10 no difference. DEX 11-12 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +5% DEX 13-14 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +10% DEX 15-16 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +15% DEX 16-17 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +20% DEX 18 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +25%
No, the two systems are fundamentally different. Ability score checks reward character builds or luck of the dice (depending on what method is used to determine ability scores), whereas saving throws improve by level and thus reward successful play over time. 3d6 in order characters can range from 15% chance of success on an ability check (score: 3) to 90% chance of success (score: 18).
i've skipped over level growth - i can see why this is a pretty big oversight.
But: saves don't increase much in the low level (1-4) games i like best.
the save system i'm trying to work out/advocate is something like:
roll-under attribute checks(most of the time) a single SAVE VERSUS DEATH score (for especially dire circumstances, like running out of hit points, or for when you fail an important attribute check), and to stare out at the player from their character sheet and frighten/inspire them.
The death save would increase once per level and decrease once per successful DEATH SAVE.
It is horses for courses in the debate between ability score checks and savings throws if you just take the mechanic of increase your chances of "saving throws" and do something similar with "ability score checks" In Alternity, you just layer on advancement of your ability scores with skills. As you increase in level, you increase your skill, which increases the "ability score" in question. Which provides the same "improvement" that having a saving throw chart provides in D&D.
Not exactly, because the starting point (the baseline) of the save will be determined by either character build or randomness. Such is not true of the classical saving throw system, which starts everyone off at the same point no matter what (and this is important to the nature of saving throws).
You can transform static ability scores to the improving save model, but they will then no longer function as ability scores do traditionally. For example, in Basic D&D, a 20th level fighter with a 7 dexterity remains clumsy for her entire career, baring magical augmentation. This quality can be important for people that use ability scores as a personality profile, as characters should not grow out of all of their weaknesses, as happens with saving throw improvement.
Low-level D&D is probably my favorite segment of the game too! But I also think improvement is pretty important to the dynamic of the game, so there is something of a contradiction going on here (the thing we love carries the seeds of its own destruction).
The idea of the death save target number being subject to events in the character's life is fascinating. I will need to think more on that.
ReplyDelete(All percentages are chance-of-success - so +25% is 25%-more-likely-to-succeed)
USING THE BASIC/EXPERT SCALE FOR ABILITY MODIFIERS (where 18 is +3)
DEX 3-4 ROLL-UNDER-REFLEX is +20%
DEX 5-6 ROLL-UNDER-REFLEX is +15%
DEX 7 ROLL-UNDER-REFLEX is +10%
DEX 8-9 ROLL-UNDER-REFLEX is +5%
DEX 10 no difference.
DEX 11 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +5%
DEX 12-13 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +10%
DEX 14 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +15%
DEX 15-16 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +20%
DEX 17-18 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +25%
USING THE d20 SYSTEM SCALE FOR ABILITY MODIFIERS (where 18 is +4)
DEX 3-4 ROLL-UNDER-REFLEX is +15%
DEX 5-6 ROLL-UNDER-REFLEX is +10%
DEX 7-8 ROLL-UNDER-REFLEX is +5%
DEX 9-10 no difference.
DEX 11-12 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +5%
DEX 13-14 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +10%
DEX 15-16 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +15%
DEX 16-17 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +20%
DEX 18 ROLL-UNDER-DEX is +25%
No, the two systems are fundamentally different. Ability score checks reward character builds or luck of the dice (depending on what method is used to determine ability scores), whereas saving throws improve by level and thus reward successful play over time. 3d6 in order characters can range from 15% chance of success on an ability check (score: 3) to 90% chance of success (score: 18).
ReplyDeleteFor more discussion, see here:
http://untimately.blogspot.com/2012/07/why-i-love-saving-throws.html
i've skipped over level growth - i can see why this is a pretty big oversight.
ReplyDeleteBut: saves don't increase much in the low level (1-4) games i like best.
the save system i'm trying to work out/advocate is something like:
roll-under attribute checks(most of the time)
a single SAVE VERSUS DEATH score (for especially dire circumstances, like running out of hit points, or for when you fail an important attribute check), and to stare out at the player from their character sheet and frighten/inspire them.
The death save would increase once per level and decrease once per successful DEATH SAVE.
It is horses for courses in the debate between ability score checks and savings throws if you just take the mechanic of increase your chances of "saving throws" and do something similar with "ability score checks"
ReplyDeleteIn Alternity, you just layer on advancement of your ability scores with skills.
As you increase in level, you increase your skill, which increases the "ability score" in question.
Which provides the same "improvement" that having a saving throw chart provides in D&D.
@Random Wizard
ReplyDeleteNot exactly, because the starting point (the baseline) of the save will be determined by either character build or randomness. Such is not true of the classical saving throw system, which starts everyone off at the same point no matter what (and this is important to the nature of saving throws).
You can transform static ability scores to the improving save model, but they will then no longer function as ability scores do traditionally. For example, in Basic D&D, a 20th level fighter with a 7 dexterity remains clumsy for her entire career, baring magical augmentation. This quality can be important for people that use ability scores as a personality profile, as characters should not grow out of all of their weaknesses, as happens with saving throw improvement.
@Matt
ReplyDeleteLow-level D&D is probably my favorite segment of the game too! But I also think improvement is pretty important to the dynamic of the game, so there is something of a contradiction going on here (the thing we love carries the seeds of its own destruction).
The idea of the death save target number being subject to events in the character's life is fascinating. I will need to think more on that.